Hi!
[meta: we need a decision by March 12; if no consensus is reached by
then, we'll let sajolida decide (if he wants to), and if he doesn't
I'll pick option 4 described below, that is: remove the "Formats"
option until it's clarified how it should look like and what it
should do.]
In 2014Q4 we discussed on this mailing list (plus some bits on
tails-l10n@) the "Formats" setting introduced in the new Greeter.
This is in addition to the "Language" setting, that itself configures
what language is used to display text, e.g. "Português - Brasil" or
"Français - Canada". Note that this discussion is about the *new*
Greeter, that will be included in Tails 3.0, whose release is
scheduled on June 13 (the old Greeter, included in Tails 2.x, does not
include any such "Formats" option).
We decided to add this "Formats" setting to the "Language & Region"
section. It was meant to configure units, date and time formats, paper
size, etc. The main use case we had in mind was "I speak French and
while traveling to the USA, I want my Tails to use local units and
formats, in a French-speaking interface". Another way to put it could
be "I want the formats to match those used in the country I currently
live in, but my preferred language is another one".
We did not specify how exactly this setting should behave, and we
didn't look closely at the actual impact of this setting. (If you want
to go look at this past discussion, Alan was kind enough to dig
through the archives and gather links to the most relevant parts:
https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/12079#note-19)
So far, so good. But recently, we noticed one unexpected aspect in the
behavior of the current implementation: for example, if I speak
French, I am traveling to Japan, I'm expected to choose "Français" as
text language, and set "Formats" to "Japan". Then, most software will
display text in French, as expected; and software will display
numbers, dates and so on in Japanese format. *But* that's not all:
there's no such thing as "displaying a date with French languages in
Japanese format". So I will get a desktop that's 95% in French, but
with all dates written in Japanese, e.g. the date/time in the GNOME
top bar. If I cannot read Japanese, then this outcome is pretty bad
for me, and is unexpected since Tails has let me pick French as the
language to be used to display text.
In other words: "Formats" and "Language" are correlated, contrary to
what we were implicitly assuming during the initial discussion that
lead to the current implementation.
After discussing this for a while with Alan, we came up with a number
of options. I'll sum them up below. We created a blueprint with
screenshots demonstrating how each of them would look like in the
Greeter, and what the result would be on the GNOME desktop:
https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/greeter_revamp_UI/design_rationale_phase1/formats/
Feel free to copy what follows into the blueprint if it's useful, e.g.
if you want to collaboratively update the comparison based on
this text.
Also, note that we did not look at how other operating systems do it.
It may be helpful if someone did :)
1. Current implementation: "Formats" affects time/date formats
==============================================================
* Greeter: we let users pick whatever "Formats" they want, even those
that don't match their chosen language at all (e.g. French language
and Japanese formats).
* resulting behavior: as described above, the UI is mostly in the
chosen language but dates are written in the language corresponding
to the chosen "Formats"
* pros: matches current GNOME's behavior
* pros: allows choosing arbitrary formats according to one's
location or preference (e.g. imperial units if I'm in the USA)
* cons: confusing, as described above; and the current UI has no room
to explain what "Formats" does, unless one opens the documentation
page, which we should probably not count too much on
* implementation cost: none, unless the UI needs to be rethought and
adjusted to clarify what the setting actually does
* note: Tails 3.0~beta1 has another implementation, that is not viable
and not worth considering here, so don't expect to check how it
works by starting this version
2. Current implementation but "Formats" does not affect time/date formats
=========================================================================
* Greeter: we let users pick whatever "Formats" they want, even those
that don't match their chosen language at all (e.g. French language
and Japanese formats), as done in the current implementation.
* resulting behavior: the UI is fully displayed in the chosen
language; everything that "Formats" affects follows from the chosen
"Formats" setting, except time/date display that follow from the
chosen "Language"
* pros: consistent text language, and in particular we don't display
text in a language that the user cannot read
* pros: allows choosing arbitrary settings for most formats according
to one's location or preference (e.g. imperial units if I'm in the
USA)
* cons: IMO one major reason to choose "Formats" according to one's
current location is to get… time/date expressed in the way it's done
in that place; so this proposal seriously weakens the benefits of
having a "Formats" option at all
* implementation cost: very low + the time needed to choose or create
a new icon for the "Formats" setting (the current one shows
a calendar)
3. Current implementation but only allow "Formats" that match the chosen language
=================================================================================
* Greeter: we let users pick "Formats" only among those that match the
chosen language closely enough. I won't annoy you with a formal
definition, so here's an example instead: given I have chosen
"French - Canada" as my preferred language, then I can choose
"Formats" among Belgique, Canada, France, Luxembourg and Suisse.
* pros: consistent text language, and in particular we don't display
text in a language that the user cannot read; display of time/date
matches the chosen "Formats"
* cons: limiting the choice of "Formats" seriously weakens the
benefits of offering this option, e.g. if I'm an Italian speaker
traveling to the USA, I won't be able to get measurements in
imperial units, nor a calendar with weeks that start on Sunday.
* implementation cost: medium
4. Remove the "Formats" option entirely
=======================================
* Greeter: no "Formats" option whatsoever, as in Tails 2.x
* resulting behavior: the "Formats" used in the GNOME session match
those of the language + territory chosen with the "Language" setting
* pros: no unexpected behavior, no resulting user confusion; gives us
time to rethink this topic if we want
* cons: Tails 3.0 won't add support for the new use cases we wanted to
support with the new Greeter (but one still can pick one's preferred
"Formats" once logged in, via the GNOME Settings, as in Tails 2.x)
* cons: due to a bug in the underlying technologies, we will need to
somehow artificially make the main Greeter window as high as it
currently is; this implies to add some empty space somewhere, or
make some elements bigger, which can take time… or look less
polished
* implementation cost: low + as much time as we want to spend on
polishing the UI wrt. the window height problem mentioned above
So, what shall we do?
Alan and I agree with each other that options 2 and 4 are the best we
have currently. I personally prefer option 4, i.e. postponing this new
feature until design is clarified. Alan prefers option 2, i.e.
keeping most of the benefits of this new setting, while limiting
user confusion.
Cheers,
--
intrigeri
