On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:45 PM, jaromil wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 06:19:19PM +0100, Alessio L.R. Pennasilico
> wrote:
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2008, at 8:34 PM, jaromil wrote:
>>
>>> as a result, none of the submitters to the book are from the south,
>>> not even the south of europe, this is a dramatic split. i think
>>> this is SHIT. i don't know who the fuck is behind this way to do
>>> things.
>>
>> This book is the result of the work of a lot of usa hacktivist like
>> Bre (the blog owner), Nick Farr (and many others). This is the
>> evolution of some meetings they organized in the past in (you may
>> call them shitty) places like hope (2600's conference) or defcon.
>
> shitty? why shitty?
you are actually throwing shit on everyone and everything, so ... :)
> after watching the stream and seing them desperately trying to recover
> the lack of south in the whole, i believe it is actually their
> extremely limited view and lack of "hacking across differences" that
> is tainting the whole project.
>
> for instance at HOPE 2600 people might remember Tati being around, she
> is an hacker active in The Fiber - Amsterdam and originally from
> Argentina. these hackerspace people might have missed both her and the
> 2600 *real people* hooking up ...
The problem is different: Tati was there, there was a meeting running
between hacker spaces and Tati was not at the meeting.
They are doing something, people that want to be involved get
involved. They are not the leader that should take care of someone,
they are a part of the community, and the community should help them.
not viceversa.
>> IMHO the problem isn't about them excluding us from the book: The
>> problem is about southern (is it a geographical problem? I do not
>> think so...) hacklabs being completely isolated from the
>> international network...
>
> no the problem is to have fake yuppies like you being around with a
> BMW Z3 and money to pay international flights to misrepresent
> completely our scene and throw bullshit around, then back to italy
> collaborating with police forces to "profile" criminal hackers. i
> just hope the face you are putting on top of "italian scene" drawns in
> your rotten grappa.
1. inform yourself before talking: I have a lotus elise, not a bmw :)
2. inform yourself before talking: i've never worked or collaborated
with police in italy
3. inform yourself before talking: the hackers profiling project do
not collaborate with any police in any place
If being good in my job, and earning money for that, is a problem for
you, it's not my fault, it's not my problem.
Me or my company do not work or collaborate with police, but would be
glad to do that: may be we could help them in harden their
infrastructure and better protect our data. I do not like they have
data about me, but they have... many CCC people do the same, many of
them quitted when they start asking to code malware to infect citizens
pc. what's the problem?
About HPP, do you really think that if we collaborate with police with
that data, FX of phenoelit would help us?
I'm really tired of you lying about me, being envy about my work (and
my money).
Please, inform yourself and stop lying: then we can discuss about
everything...
>> They aren't ignoring us: we are ignoring them, we are not trying to
>> be involved in their activities, and so on.
>
> i'm not ignoring them. metalab, tmp/lab and more: is US (not you
> indeed) and we are struggling a big deal to network. the *method* this
> initiative is handled is raising walls.
From them (Philippe, Bre, Nick) I only hear "send materials, help
us". I see no raised wall...
>> I think that if freacknet, loa, reload, someone else would start in
>> being involved it should lead to a lager, stronger network. and
>> problems like "the book" will easily disappear.
>
> i think it is obvious how to solve the problem: build a proper network
> of trust to empower more people to be editors of the book and adopt an
> open publishing with periodical "stable releases".
>
> we are hackers! i'm just SO SURPRISED this is not already obvious.
ok, so stop writing "... or we will delete ourself from
hackerspace.org ..." and start asking "how can I help you?".
usually this work :)
>> [update because I am now here at CCC] I talk with my friend bre last
>> night: the deadline was abou the pdf to be presented at 25C3, but
>> can be edited in the future months, so all the missing hacklabs can
>> be integrated.
>
> right. it wasn't clear so far.
that was not so clear reading your threaten emails of past days ...
> what about enlarging the editorial group? and opening up the
> submission committee with people that is actually *visiting* the
> places - and not like "oh i received a phonecall from south-africa,
> how exciting!
I'm quite sure that if more people will offer to really help, they
will not refuse some needed help to manage this huge project.
oh, IMHO help does not only mean "insert this text in this book" :),
but mean time, money, believing in the project, talking with people
(not insulting them) and so on.
a mayhem searching for more blue wine ;P
--
If we keep asking questions and thinking outside the box, there will
always be something good to look forward to. E. Goldstein
http://mayhem.hk - Key on pgp.mit.edu ID B88FE057
