On 19/07/21 14:17, intrigeri wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ignifugo (2021-07-19):
>> And I don't know which are the plan after.. "replace xmpp with?"..
>> lets go... with Discourse? is ok for me... but are missing
>> informations. important to understand and seems a bit discredit the
>> answer of Syster.
> I believe the information you say is missing was mentioned in my
> introductory email in this thread ("Proposal: migrate our public chat
> rooms to another friendly XMPP server (#17956)"):
>
> - blueprint:
> https://gitlab.tails.boum.org/tails/blueprints/-/wikis/Migrate_from_xmpp.riseup.net/
>
> - "Why not a more modern chat protocol?" section (where I also
> explain why *I* would rather not open this can of worms right now,
> ⇒ why there's no "plan" yet)
>
> In the future, I would be grateful if you could do minimal fact
> gathering, before you express such judgments: as you can see above,
> since you did not do that, facing public accusations, I felt urged to
> do that homework myself, which I find unfair.
hi,
yes, you are agree. I have to put more attention to search information
in the gitlab. In general. It's true.
sorry that I bothered you.
My opinion was related to "replace XMPP with..." and I thought from your
tone (so probably really opinable, sorry), that there was a concrete
plan to drop xmpp and you feel unhappy to lost time now deciding on xmpp
platform because we have to drop soon. But is not the real future... and
present.
I probably not understand you and answered bad (sorry again for my mistake)
to clarify I think that you put a lot of attention to record every step
and I appreciated a lot you in this.
>> I have also dubts about esiliati.org, I'm not sure that is more than a
>> person, I used some of their tools, but I used safely only the stateless
>> service.
>>
>> They have not explicit policy, not founding plan, not decision making,
>> not comunication channel with the users. for what I know... maybe
>> someone can say that I'm wrong... please.
> On the one hand, you know that project better than I do, so I'm
> inclined to trust your judgment (although I have difficulties
> balancing it with boyska's, so perhaps you 2 can sort it out? :)
probably we are of 2 different opinions, also different experiences and
probably different
communications with the project.
> On the other hand, the time for such feedback was June 29 - July 11.
> It would have been OK to ask for an extra week of delay or so, but
> this did not happen. Since the July 11 deadline passed, I've set up
> the 2 new chat rooms on esiliati.org, which a bunch of us have spent
> time testing — thanks! I would like this work to be valued, which
> I don't feel is the case if we silently ditch it as if it
> never happened. So I'm hereby re-adding that work to the equation.
thanks for share this because I don't know.
And yes, I know 15 days for me are not enought.. to process the
information and answer. sorry.
> If we indeed have good reasons to ditch that work and re-do it from
> scratch, fine.
>
>> I would like propose to move on:
> Given the time left before the migration, IMO it's too late to start
> evaluating brand new candidates now. However:
>
>> 1) https://www.systemli.org/en/service/xmpp/ -
>> https://jabber.systemli.org/
>> (https://compliance.conversations.im/server/jabber.systemli.org/)
> It was indeed the other candidate. Quoting details from the blueprint:
>
> "
> - happy to host us
> - XMPP server will run another 2+ years but not forever.
> - They host a (beta as of today) Matrix server.
> - They can help us transition to Matrix when their XMPP server goes away.
> "
>
> Personally, I'm OK with migrating these 2 chat rooms to systemli.org.
> Nobody expressed objections to it since June 29 either so I understand
> we have a rough consensus about it (just like we had one about
> esiliati.org so far).
>
> I'm fine with delaying the migration to next week (July 26-29) until
> we make up our mind: thankfully, the original timeline had 1 spare
> week to cope with surprises. However, delaying it any longer would
> bring the risk to (temporarily) end up with no chat rooms at all; we
> had a rough consensus against dropping these chat rooms (permanently).
>
Ah, ok so drop XMPP is not in the possibility and not in a short future.
it is?
That is change the meaning of your last email in my mind, sorry I was a
bit confusing... but I try to reform.
The summary now put in light better what we can choose.
So we are choose again for a long time," a solid public platform for
xmpp chat "... in this case for me,
look like that we can..
1) ask to esiliati.org to express in english their project and political
plans and privacy policy and term of use.
But this implicate an action that is not sure. And still not resolve my
worry, that is only one person running the project, that for me put this
a bit fragile, but are trusted people and we can speak open with he/them
and know what are their plan for the future. So is not a big big problem.
but we can decide, maybe if boyska and I we do as voluntary, to help
that project to have a clear external comunication with the user.. if
they want. Because I spoke with about be a public international project
and "he" didn't want. But maybe changed idea, and if did... I'm happy!
I can do a quick call with boyska to tell if this is possible...
Or 2) move to systemli.org .. that:
- they have local language and english explanation
https://www.systemli.org/en/service/xmpp/
- a political view
https://www.systemli.org/en/about-us/
- a term of service
https://www.systemli.org/en/tos/
- a nice an running service xmpp :P
I'm available to start test on this.
hugs ignifugo
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