Sorry, this is the off/stopped state.
On Jul 21, 2016, at 5:23 PM, Susan <susanf@???> wrote:
> Maybe this was discussed already, but red/green color blindness means that it's
> a problem to use those two colors in meaningful ways, together.
>
> [In general, color for meaning tends to fail, except blue for links and gray for unavailable. Color and brightness can be good for attention sometimes though. Yellow works pretty well for message backgrounds, for example, and default buttons (activated with Enter) work well if they are the brightest/most-saturated color.]
>
> Some ideas to consider if needed:
>
> To attract attention, some alternatives:
>
> (quick fix for users not noticing) Pulse a color (blink) on or near the switch to attract attention.
>
> (better solution perhaps) Take away the switch and replace it with a "Start" button that's 3D enough to look pressable. Show on/off/trying status separately. Change button to "Stop" when status is on.
>
> Rationale against using the switch for this purpose: Although they are currently very popular, toggle switches tend to be ambiguous in many cases. The problem depends on design but they are worse when also acting as state indicators as this one seems to do. Labels next to the switch (instead of on the switch) tend to work better than integrated labels for disambiguation, but that takes up more space.
>
> Also, with labels on the switch, "On" and "Off" may cause confusion, because they could be status indicators instead of actions. A person may reason that they are revealing the state they want by pressing the switch, or they may believe they are doing the thing the switch says to do ("turn on" / "turn off"). Many of the light switches in the wall in the US have this problem.
>
> To show status (together might be best):
>
> . Graphics: on/off light and spinner for trying to connect (green / very light gray)
> . Words: "On", "Off" "Starting..." for status.
>
> I attached the two examples that I think show the switch and lights in the test version, for reference:
>
> <clickable_label_while_service_running.png><clickable_label_while_service_running.png>
>
> Susan
>
> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:46 AM, sajolida <sajolida@???> wrote:
>>>>> - 3/5 needed some time to see the on-switch to actually start the
>>>>> service after installing it
>>>>> - I don't know how we can make this more obvious. I think putting
>>>>> on-switches in the top-right corner is standard in GNOME. And I don't
>>>>> see any other position where it would be more noticeable without looking
>>>>> awkward.
>>>>
>>>> Now I realize that the "Status" info is not aligned with the [On/Off]
>>>> switch which is also indicating the status. Maybe merging all this in
>>>> one line would help. The line could be structured like this:
>>>>
>>>> - Status: [On/Off] (Spinner) (Additional status info...)
>>>
>>> Ok, I will try this. You would leave out the red / green "light" then?
>>
>> Good question... To which extend the red / green light only duplicates
>> the state of the on / off button? Would removing the red / green light
>> be problematic in some cases, for example when starting the service?
>> Would it be enough to have only the on / off switch and say that:
>>
>> - when the switch is turned on, we try to start the service and
>> feedback about the progress in the status.
>> - if the service fails to start we changed back the switch to off?
>>
>
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%20work%20well%20if%20they%20are%20the%20brightest/most-saturated%20color.%5D%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20Some%20ideas%20to%20consider%20if%20needed:%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20To%20attract%20attention,%20some%20alternatives:%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20(quick%20fix%20for%20users%20not%20noticing)%20Pulse%20a%20color%20(blink)%20on%20or%20near%20the%20switch%20to%20attract%20attention.%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20(better%20solution%20perhaps)%20Take%20away%20the%20switch%20and%20replace%20it%20with%20a%20%22Start%22%20button%20that's%203D%20enough%20to%20look%20pressable.%20Show%20on/off/trying%20status%20separately.%20Change%20button%20to%20%22Stop%22%20when%20status%20is%20on.%20%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20Rationale%20against%20using%20the%20switch%20for%20this%20purpose:%20Although%20they%20are%20currently%20very%20popular,%20toggle%20switches%20tend%20to%20be%20ambiguous%20in%20many%20cases.%20The%20problem%20depends%20on%20design%20but%20they%20are%20worse%20when%20also%20acting%20as%20state%20indicators%20as%20this%20one%20seems%20to%20do.%20Labels%20next%20to%20the%20switch%20(instead%20of%20on%20the%20switch)%20tend%20to%20work%20better%20than%20integrated%20labels%20for%20disambiguation,%20but%20that%20takes%20up%20more%20space.%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20Also,%20with%20labels%20on%20the%20switch,%20%22On%22%20and%20%22Off%22%20may%20cause%20confusion,%20because%20they%20could%20be%20status%20indicators%20instead%20of%20actions.%20A%20person%20may%20reason%20that%20they%20are%20revealing%20the%20state%20they%20want%20by%20pressing%20the%20switch,%20or%20they%20may%20believe%20they%20are%20doing%20the%20thing%20the%20switch%20says%20to%20do%20(%22turn%20on%22%20/%20%22turn%20off%22).%20Many%20of%20the%20light%20switches%20in%20the%20wall%20in%20the%20US%20have%20this%20problem.%20%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20To%20show%20status%20(together%20might%20be%20best):%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20.%20Graphics:%20on/off%20light%20and%20spinner%20for%20trying%20to%20connect%20(green%20/%20very%20light%20gray)%0A>%20>%20.%20Words:%20%20%22On%22,%20%22Off%22%20%22Starting...%22%20%20for%20status.%20%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20I%20attached%20the%20two%20examples%20that%20I%20think%20show%20the%20switch%20and%20lights%20in%20the%20test%20version,%20for%20reference:%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20<clickable_label_while_service_running.png><clickable_label_while_service_running.png>%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20Susan%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20On%20Jul%2021,%202016,%20at%209:46%20AM,%20sajolida%20<sajolida@???>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>>>%20-%203/5%20needed%20some%20time%20to%20see%20the%20on-switch%20to%20actually%20start%20the%0A>%20>>>>>%20service%20after%20installing%20it%0A>%20>>>>>%20%20-%20I%20don't%20know%20how%20we%20can%20make%20this%20more%20obvious.%20I%20think%20putting%0A>%20>>>>>%20on-switches%20in%20the%20top-right%20corner%20is%20standard%20in%20GNOME.%20And%20I%20don't%0A>%20>>>>>%20see%20any%20other%20position%20where%20it%20would%20be%20more%20noticeable%20without%20looking%0A>%20>>>>>%20awkward.%0A>%20>>>>%20%0A>%20>>>>%20Now%20I%20realize%20that%20the%20%22Status%22%20info%20is%20not%20aligned%20with%20the%20%5BOn/Off%5D%0A>%20>>>>%20switch%20which%20is%20also%20indicating%20the%20status.%20Maybe%20merging%20all%20this%20in%0A>%20>>>>%20one%20line%20would%20help.%20The%20line%20could%20be%20structured%20like%20this:%0A>%20>>>>%20%0A>%20>>>>%20%20%20-%20Status:%20%5BOn/Off%5D%20(Spinner)%20(Additional%20status%20info...)%0A>%20>>>%20%0A>%20>>>%20Ok,%20I%20will%20try%20this.%20You%20would%20leave%20out%20the%20red%20/%20green%20%22light%22%20then?%0A>%20>>%20%0A>%20>>%20Good%20question...%20To%20which%20extend%20the%20red%20/%20green%20light%20only%20duplicates%0A>%20>>%20the%20state%20of%20the%20on%20/%20off%20button?%20Would%20removing%20the%20red%20/%20green%20light%0A>%20>>%20be%20problematic%20in%20some%20cases,%20for%20example%20when%20starting%20the%20service?%0A>%20>>%20Would%20it%20be%20enough%20to%20have%20only%20the%20on%20/%20off%20switch%20and%20say%20that:%0A>%20>>%20%0A>%20>>%20%20-%20when%20the%20switch%20is%20turned%20on,%20we%20try%20to%20start%20the%20service%20and%0A>%20>>%20feedback%20about%20the%20progress%20in%20the%20status.%0A>%20>>%20%20-%20if%20the%20service%20fails%20to%20start%20we%20changed%20back%20the%20switch%20to%20off?%0A>%20>>%20%0A>%20>%20%0A>%20>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>%20Tails-ux%20mailing%20list%0A>%20>%20Tails-ux@???%0A>%20>%20https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-ux%0A>%20%0A>%20 "Vastaa")