spencerone@???:
>>> sajolida[at]pimienta.org:
>>> PS1: Diddly-Squat, GNOME people spell it in full caps. Don't ask me
>>> why but I've heard that they get pissed off otherwise :)
>>
>> Yes, they get pissy about it because they've trademarked the acronym
>> (GNU Network Object Model Environment) by adding TM after it.
>> Maintaining and defending a trademark requires consistent usage I((as
>> well as the TM indicia). In litigation, if you haven't consistently used
>> your mark, and defended its use, you can lose protection.
Haha! that might be one reason indeed :)
>> Someone should
>> trademark Tails (all it requires is the indicia (TM) after it (and you
>> seem too be using it consistently). Actually a professional writer
>> would just do it and notify management, or at least question why it
>> wasn't being done. A registered trademark uses the letter R in a circle.
>> But registering trademarks is another issue, and I believe country
>> specific.
>
> Stealing words from society is what a trademark is. Not much different
> from other intellectual property. However, consistant and valuable
> usage is important, especially in a free market. Others could use
> 'Tails' in this case, but, unless they are placing more value behind the
> name, they wouldn't gain any traction. The downside is if we took this
> super idealistic stance, others could register the trademark, or simply
> use TM appropriately.
>
> Also, you don't have to use TM or ®, just provide adequate notice of
> "ownership" of what I believe would be considered a "Coined" mark, such
> as in a trademark section, though it could be considered an "Arbitrary"
> mark due to the use of the word in english to describe an animal appendage.
>
> In the US, the mark, if registered, is good for 10yrs, and incontestable
> after 5yrs. I do not know about international laws, though,
> theoretically, this "ownership" can last for eternity, even with just an
> unregistered trademark, TM. I would sure hate to see Tails™ everywhere,
> a dedicated place on the website would be most appropriate, so that the
> trademark could be as free as the product itself.
Thanks for raising the trademark issue as it honestly never occurred to
us. I created a ticket to keep track of our discussion regarding that.
https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/9047 Still, I'm sure whether we are
ready to consider such a debate.
>>> PS2: Diddly-Squat, I would be very interested in reading more style
>>> guides. You mentioned that you don't like the one from Microsoft and
>>> that's the one I've been using when GNOME was not enough. Feel free to
>>> send me more pointers in private (or on tails-ux for the pleasure of
>>> everybody).
>>
>> In all truthfullness I have never studied the MS style guide. I do know
>> some companies use it. I'm sure it's a fine guide. A quick look up
>> shows its about 500 pages or so in length, so it must cover some
>> depth. If you've been using it, I would suggest continuing so as to
>> not have major rewrites due to style issues - you not being a
>> professional writer I won't hold it against you personally!
>>
>> My only dislike of it is
>> based upon my personal disdain for the company. I am prejudice
>> against MS, I'll confess!
>> But, in all reality it's probably excellent.
>
> It is, especially lately. They make junk, but it is becoming more and
> more beautiful junk, at least typographically.
I used the MS Style Guide because it was much more complete that the one
from GNOME and I found it quite easily. I also thought that MS must have
put a lot of resources, time, and expertise into it and felt like it was
a good think to reuse that from them (with no strings attached).
>> After all, it's not about what is right or wrong, it's very simply about
>> (consistent) style. One can actually make one's own style guide.In
>> fact I have recently (a small one, then I defaulted to the technique
>> decscribed further down).
>
> I would encourage us to be designing Tails, not GNOME or anything else.
> Using the styleguides as a reference or as insight into architectural
> layout or element/text composition/usage is cool, but copying is no good
> and will lead to a product that is not Tails, eventually requiring this
> presumably avoided redesign. Also, it allows us to fall into the trap
> of blind conformity, by using industry standards as resolutions though
> common logic would instruct us otherwise.
Keep in mind that what we ship to our users is only 1% specific to
Tails, all the rest is a wild mix of Debian, GNOME, GNU, whatever.
See our statement on relationship with upstream:
https://tails.boum.org/contribute/relationship_with_upstream/
So we are copying 99% of what we do already and Tails couldn't exist
otherwise. In that perspective, when we create the 1% of custom Tails
stuff we need to pay attention to how it fits in the broader picture of
the 99% that we copied. And as far as basic desktop application and
integration goes, this is GNOME.
--
sajolida
