Re: [Tails-ux] [Tails-l10n] About the importance of locale

intrigeri wrote:
> sajolida@??? wrote (23 Sep 2014 18:38:07 GMT) :
>> We are considering removing either the "locale" or the "keyboard"
>> settings from the initial screen of Tails Greeter (revamped version:
>> https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/greeter_revamp_UI/greeter-1st-screen-dvd.png)
>
> I think you mean "territory" or "region", rather than "locale", as we
> do want to keep the language settings, which are part of the
> information encoded in the locale.

Yes.

> Note that on Wheezy, GNOME presents the "territory" as "Formats",
> which makes sense to me: users probably care more about the practical
> effects (changing formats) of the territory, than about the territory
> itself. I think this solves the "Suspicious" point raised by sajolida
> on -ux@.

I like that formulation much better. I still find it a bit obscure but
maybe having a small explanation can improve on this. Maybe "Adjust
units and date formats to your usual location". We could also provide
examples of formats as they would be set.

    Formats
    Adjust units and date formats to your usual location
    [Selection tool says US]
    Date: 01/10/2014 4:49 pm, Units: imperial system, Paper size: Letter

> Let me play the devil's advocate for a while.

Please do so. This way we make sure that we didn't overlook anything.

> Looking at en_US vs. en_UK:
>
> * Someone used to the metric system (en_* but en_US) may be confused
> by figures expressed in the imperial system (en_US), and vice-versa.
> * Someone used to 24h time display (en_UK) may be confused by "7pm"
> (en_US), and vice-versa.
> * Some used to DD/MM/YYYY (en_UK) may be confused by MM/DD/YYYY
> (en_US), especially when the expressed date is ambiguous, such as
> 05/04/2014.
> * I'm very unsure that non-tech-savvy users living in a country where
> A4 paper is the norm are aware that the Letter paper size exists.
> I suspect they'll be greatly confused if their document is printed
> wrongly due to the system being mis-localized, and may be simply
> unable to identify the cause of the problem and the (obvious, once
> you know about it -- pretty obscure otherwise) solution.

All of those examples are valid.

> Another concern I have in mind, with removing the obvious way to
> choose one's region, is a diplomatic / political one: we currently
> pick a default region for each language in the Greeter. I see it as
> a compromise: the alternative — no default, everybody has to choose —
> implies more pain for users of the current default region, and no less
> pain for others. Making the region invisibly and automatically
> inferred from the chosen language goes further in reinforcing the
> power imbalance that is often in place between the default region
> picked for a language, and the "minority" non-default regions, e.g.
> {formerly,} colonized ones. This issue is similar, though a bit less
> extreme perhaps, to the one of using national flags as symbols for
> languages in GUIs.

That's a good point too.

> Now, I've only skimmed through the threads on -ux@, so I don't feel
> able to propose anything that 1. makes it easy for users of
> non-default regions to pick their own, and make it persistent; and 2.
> allows to simplify the UI a bit.
>
> Good luck with all this!

My question now is what do we do in the first screen? To the light of
this argumentation I see three options:

1. We keep the interface as of today and work on making it more clear
what this settings does. But it might be a bit tricky to make that
information fit with the actual vertical selector.

2. We use a different interface than the Language + Keyboard combo. For
example an horizontal dropdown list across the full screen. That would
allow more horizontal space for the explanation and the examples. See
screenshot in attachment. But this brings in more visual elements and
might make the option to remember localization options a bit less clear.

3. Move this option to the advanced configuration. But I understand that
intrigeri's argumentation goes against this.

PS: I'm bring back tails-ux@??? in the loop. Make sure to answer to
both lists.

--
sajolida