Re: [Tails-l10n] About the importance of locale

Hi,

sajolida@??? wrote (23 Sep 2014 18:38:07 GMT) :
> We are considering removing either the "locale" or the "keyboard"
> settings from the initial screen of Tails Greeter (revamped version:
> https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/greeter_revamp_UI/greeter-1st-screen-dvd.png)

I think you mean "territory" or "region", rather than "locale", as we
do want to keep the language settings, which are part of the
information encoded in the locale.

(Sorry I'm nitpicking, I just want to make sure that it's clear to
everyone what's the actual proposal :)

Note that on Wheezy, GNOME presents the "territory" as "Formats",
which makes sense to me: users probably care more about the practical
effects (changing formats) of the territory, than about the territory
itself. I think this solves the "Suspicious" point raised by sajolida
on -ux@.

> For example, if you know concrete examples where setting a wrong locale
> is a really issue (pt_PT instead of pt_BR), that would we a very useful
> piece of information.

Let me play the devil's advocate for a while.

Looking at en_US vs. en_UK:

* Someone used to the metric system (en_* but en_US) may be confused
by figures expressed in the imperial system (en_US), and vice-versa.
* Someone used to 24h time display (en_UK) may be confused by "7pm"
(en_US), and vice-versa.
* Some used to DD/MM/YYYY (en_UK) may be confused by MM/DD/YYYY
(en_US), especially when the expressed date is ambiguous, such as
05/04/2014.
* I'm very unsure that non-tech-savvy users living in a country where
A4 paper is the norm are aware that the Letter paper size exists.
I suspect they'll be greatly confused if their document is printed
wrongly due to the system being mis-localized, and may be simply
unable to identify the cause of the problem and the (obvious, once
you know about it -- pretty obscure otherwise) solution.

*We* are probably much be better used to switch between languages,
timezones and all those systems, than the average Tails user, and I'm
concerned that this starting point may lead us to underestimate the
importance of providing the user with a properly localized environment.

Another concern I have in mind, with removing the obvious way to
choose one's region, is a diplomatic / political one: we currently
pick a default region for each language in the Greeter. I see it as
a compromise: the alternative — no default, everybody has to choose —
implies more pain for users of the current default region, and no less
pain for others. Making the region invisibly and automatically
inferred from the chosen language goes further in reinforcing the
power imbalance that is often in place between the default region
picked for a language, and the "minority" non-default regions, e.g.
{formerly,} colonized ones. This issue is similar, though a bit less
extreme perhaps, to the one of using national flags as symbols for
languages in GUIs.

Now, I've only skimmed through the threads on -ux@, so I don't feel
able to propose anything that 1. makes it easy for users of
non-default regions to pick their own, and make it persistent; and 2.
allows to simplify the UI a bit.

Good luck with all this!

Cheers,
--
intrigeri