Re: [Hackmeeting] Servizi simili ad A/I

It's one thing to be questioning, critical and skeptical. It's a totally
different thing though to disseminate infamous rumors that compromise
other peoples reputation.

To be honest, I'm not in the position of being able to tell if riseup
receives support from government or not. Although it's more than a
decade I'm following them, using their services, collaborating with
them, sharing problems and solutions, hanging out on their IRC servers
nearly 24/7, I'm still not able to tell for sure. During this time I
even got quite familiar with some of the people behind and around
riseup, learning about their habits, their fears and interests, their
personal situations and preferences. And I have to say, I generally
believe in them and what they are longing for, because of the
experiences and observations I made. But still, I cannot tell for sure.

I can see what is written on their help pages, in the wiki, their terms
of use, in the social contract they're offering to their users. I see
how they operate things, how they deal with repression, manage
confiscation and legal issues in general, but -again- still cannot be
sure about it.

As we are in contact, I can even ask and confront them (what I did) and
base my judgement on the plausibility and credibility of their
responses. But still -you got it?- can't tell for sure.

I just don't know for sure, simply 'cause there is no way to tell for
sure. I can't check and oversee all the involvements and contacts people
behind riseup might have or have not. And neither can they -on a
personal scale- do so, for the whole of the group. But that's nothing
special, as it lays in the very characteristics of such an organization
itself that there's no way to proof they aren't receiving support from
(or cooperating with) the government, beside transparency and openness.
So, in the end, all one can do is carefully make up ones mind and decide
either to leave, or to believe in it: In their values, their faith and
their integrity. Let's name it: The contract between riseup and their
users is based on nothing, but trust.

These are the circumstances that make your claim as infamous as it is.
You are covertly attacking this layer of trust, putting them and their
integrity in doubt. You pretend to know something, without telling it.
You judge them without providing a proof. You act like pointing out, but
without providing any facts. And you even go that far that you define
them as liars, for not telling what they really are doing.

You seem to feel that smart, that you even think you can provide a
plausible reason for them not being telling it: You pretend it would
alert and scare the (in your words) "hyper-sensitives" in the audience.

Sheesh man, isn't that exactly what you are aiming at with your claims?
What else could be the result of your mentioning, of your intervention,
if not irritated, scared and/or alerted (potential) users? What else
would give a momentum to your accusations, as there is no evidence and
no source, if not the effect it may have on those thin-skinned
"hyper-sensitives" that you may have been able to infect and discourage
by your little FUD campaign?

And while it may be your best practice to keep the situation calm by
obfuscation, I -again and again- observed how riseup folks took big
efforts in answering user questions and providing the insight needed for
making up ones own opinion.

You are not the whistle-blower here you pretend to be. At least not as
long you aren't providing obvious reasonability for your accusations. Do
you realize you are nothing but an offender, an attacker, an accuser
yet? Someone that gives some importance and value to himself by putting
others down, pointing his finger on them and intimidating those who
listen and follow, leaving everyone alone with the doubts and confusion
you rose?

You got something to say? So do it please, point it out and let us know.
Please be precise and provide some details, as we are really, really
interested. All you presented so far was that bucket full of shit you've
thrown at riseup. And to get this clear: it's your shit that makes the
ugly smell, it's not coming from the one you've thrown it at.

Seriously, is all this really about riseup? Or is the problem maybe
related to yourself or your background/engagement/involvement and you
are just projecting it on them? For what (personal) reason ever?

My impression is, you are attacking the riseup collective for something
they represent, while you are missing out on it. And I'd call that
integrity. Period.

Personally, I wouldn't give a f**k about riseup managing to rip some
money out of governmental pockets, as long as there's no evidence for
cooperation or influence being taken.

And up to that point, I see no reason for not trusting them in what they
do and say, as it absolutely fits the experiences and observations made
so far.


jolly

p.s.: this was not written in defense of riseup, but with those in mind
who may have been troubled and unsettled without reason.