I intentionally removed the metro olografix list because of their
silence about the "discussion" and the complaints about cross-posting.
On Dec 27, 2008, at 11:01 PM, jaromil wrote:
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> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 08:33:17PM +0100, Alessio L.R. Pennasilico
> wrote:
>> you are actually throwing shit on everyone and everything, so ... :)
>
> i share lots of LOVE with lots of people in our scene, you know?
same love, same people, different way of acting...
> OTOH i'm never afraid to say shitty things, contrary to people like
> you Mayehm, dying to please everyone in every possible way.
I please people with grappa, and I usually say "thank you" to people
trying to build up something for the community.
As I said before, I love opinions, because anyone can have his own.
>> The problem is different: Tati was there, there was a meeting running
>> between hacker spaces and Tati was not at the meeting.
>
> right. and how many other people from the southern hemisphere were
> there? everyone missed? oh yea, that's the butterfly effect right?
so they intentionally excluded them from the meeting open to everyone
in the center of the hackspace on the forst floor of hope?
> but no, once again the same patterns here: we were first, we are the
> ones. and the majority of those are northern subsidized yuppies. and
so bre, philippe, nick and the other guys are northern yuppies?
> with you to complete our portrait Mayhem: the italian clown running
> around with grappa and sport cars, rather than representing the real
> scene here,
the real scene? plese, describe the truth(tm) to me, enlighten me,
please!
> that was honoured by the visit of Wau Holland in 1999
> (putting bananas in parked cars in his free time, one would have been
> surely yours) and that is opening grassroot hacker spaces since more
> than 10 years now, every year, and in Spain too
respect for wau, but you are appreciating who is opening hacker
spaces, but despite who are trying to create a network between them.
sorry, I do not understand.
> ultimately i do not believe there was a planned separation in this
> initiative, but i do believe there is a lot of ignorance and serious
> need for humble people that know better how to work with a social
> movement, radical differences and an horizontal process for editorial
> work (as in writing code).
so philippe, bre and nick are ignorant, are not able, nor the correct
people, to manage a social network or an horizontal process?
sorry jaromil, but my opinion is different....
> i'm not proposing myself in that role of course, i guess it is obvious
> i'm just good at getting hangry at injustice and maybe writing
> software. please note at this time of the year i could just enjoy
> southern food with my family and sit on my ass: but nope, i really
> feel the urge to point out some problems *now*, because enough is
> enough and too late might be too late.
so, you are throwing shit on the project, but you do not want to help,
collaborate, mitigate, only get angry?
I am really happy of being a clown running with grappa and sports cars
but having a different way of thinking and acting than this.
>> They are doing something, people that want to be involved get
>> involved. They are not the leader that should take care of someone,
>> they are a part of the community, and the community should help
>> them. not viceversa.
>
> sure, setting up anal deadlines for their own showup to be in time.
ok, you did not appreciate it. sorry :)
>>> no the problem is to have fake yuppies like you being around with a
>>> BMW Z3 and money to pay international flights to misrepresent
>>> completely our scene and throw bullshit around, then back to italy
>>> collaborating with police forces to "profile" criminal hackers. i
>>> just hope the face you are putting on top of "italian scene" drawns
>>> in your rotten grappa.
>>
>> 1. inform yourself before talking: I have a lotus elise, not a bmw :)
>
> i sincerely hope you end up parking in the next banlieues, you and
> your car deserve it SO much, bloodclot.
I have so much money I can buy a new one :))))))))))))
and also some more grappa bottles :)))))))))))))))))))
>> 2. inform yourself before talking: i've never worked or collaborated
>> with police in italy
>
> oh sure. sure.
>
> as if *that* would be the problem.
>
> that is not the problem. the problem is the *method*.
so, you admit I never collaborated or worked with police, it is a mere
lie, but the problem is the method.
ok, you are right, as usual :)))
> there is people actually collaborating with legal forces to explain
> them what really happens with hacking: that 18 years old kids hacking
> into a system are not as criminals as companies selling security
> measures for hundred thousands schekels.
>
> i for myself have spoken publicly in front of rows of higher court
> judges about these and other issues in Eu-rope. that is *not* the
> problem. the problem is whom you listen to and what you do it for:
> thats your problem Mayhem, bloodclot.
You know nothing about my talks (never attendee one), nothing about my
ideas (or you'll never write some lies), nothing about the book, my
car, my grappa, my non existing links with police, and you are still
here harassing me. that's ok.
A lot of groups, non-profit associations (included metro olografix
that you founded), schools, CSOA ask me to talk to or for them about
freedom, democracy, privacy, and so on. this is a fact. so please,
stop talking about things you do not know.
>> 3. inform yourself before talking: the hackers profiling project do
>> not collaborate with any police in any place
>
> sure, that's why you profile and offer consultancy even in this mail.
ok, so you have some real evidences to accuse me. please provide at
least one... at least a suspect fact ... at least one ...
I am really tired about working on a project whose aim is to
demonstrate that hackers are people and not criminals nor terrorists,
that a industrial spy, a boy downloading film and an hackitivist are
really different thing. I am tired of paying 600 euros every 2 months
to have a secure infrastructure in my home, to avoid police stealing
data from my server in a datacenter (remember autistici or firenze lug
experience). I am really tired of encrypted disks, encrypted backups
and so on to avoid wrong people access the hpp database. I am tired
about all this hard work and having people criticizing the project
without knowing it, without knowing the people involved (as you
demonstrate many times confuning names, roles, competences) and
offending all the partners of the project.
>> If being good in my job, and earning money for that, is a problem
>> for you, it's not my fault, it's not my problem. Me or my company
>> do not work or collaborate with police, but would be glad to do
>> that: may be we could help them in harden their infrastructure and
>> better protect our data. I do not like they have data about me, but
>> they have... many CCC people do the same, many of them quitted when
>> they start asking to code malware to infect citizens pc. what's the
>> problem? About HPP, do you really think that if we collaborate with
>> police with that data, FX of phenoelit would help us?
>>
>> I'm really tired of you lying about me, being envy about my work
>> (and my money). Please, inform yourself and stop lying: then we can
>> discuss about everything...
>
> there is no lie in what i say and now it is my word against yours, and
> we have whitnesses. let it be also that i'm absolutely not envy of
> bloodclot like you, this is so obvious for people knowing me well.
last night you raped a white blonde seventeen virgin.
no witnesses, my word against yours. so you raped her?
>> From them (Philippe, Bre, Nick) I only hear "send materials, help
>> us". I see no raised wall...
>
> thanks guys. thanks for your understanding. i'm serious here.
were you serious also some paragraphs above?
>> ok, so stop writing "... or we will delete ourself from
>> hackerspace.org ..." and start asking "how can I help you?".
>> usually this work :)
>
> been there, done that. i proposed we avoid filling it up in the
> ultimate case some voluntary obstruction is there - and that was just
> my *final* consideration.
>
>
>>>> [update because I am now here at CCC] I talk with my friend bre
>>>> last night: the deadline was abou the pdf to be presented at 25C3,
>>>> but can be edited in the future months, so all the missing
>>>> hacklabs can be integrated.
>>>
>>> right. it wasn't clear so far.
>>
>> that was not so clear reading your threaten emails of past days ...
>
> there was no *threat*.
>
> there are critical considerations and proposed actions.
"... we will delete all the southern realities from hackspaces.org ...".
proposed actions?
>>> what about enlarging the editorial group? and opening up the
>>> submission committee with people that is actually *visiting* the
>>> places - and not like "oh i received a phonecall from south-africa,
>>> how exciting!
>>
>> I'm quite sure that if more people will offer to really help, they
>> will not refuse some needed help to manage this huge project.
>
> i did offer,
no, you did not. some paragraphs before you state:
"i'm not proposing myself in that role of course, i guess it is obvious
i'm just good at getting hangry at injustice and maybe writing
software. "
did this look like a "how can I help you?"
> more might come, maybe not? depends how ridicolous the
> whole panel looks like now and how constructive will be the outcome of
> this thread.
>
> i couldn't watch the whole stream since from down here the network is
> quite slow, damn. waiting for postproduced materials to be up for
> download.
ok, obviously I hope that watching the conference video will help you
in contribute in a positive way to the project, as I wish (seriously).
a mayhem quite drunk in the 25C3 hackerspace
--
If we keep asking questions and thinking outside the box, there will
always be something good to look forward to. E. Goldstein
http://mayhem.hk - Key on pgp.mit.edu ID B88FE057
