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Ciao, non so chi di voi conosce Consulta Europea. Mi piacerebbe avere =
opinioni informate in merito.
Di seguito vi mando un'intervista in proposito che ho ricevuto giorni fa =
da znetupdates@???=20
dove si contrappone consultaeuropea.org al FSE, dove la prima viene =
dipinta come una rete di attivisti anticapitalisti=20
("anarchici e zapatisti"), e il secondo infestato da riformisti, ambigui =
sul tema "capitalismo si / capitalismo no".=20
IMHO approfondirei, perch=E8 il capitalismo dei Paesi scandinavi, del =
Giappone o quello "fordista-keynesiano" sono alquanto diversi da quello =
liberista imposto dal consenso di Washington ancora dominante. Vale a =
dire che si pu=F2 essere antiliberisti e non necessariamente =
anticapitalisti. Soprattutto: =E8 necessario o utile dividerci *ora* su =
questo? O forse =E8 meglio cercare prima di sconfiggere il liberismo e =
ridimensionare il capitalismo reale, cio=E8 limitare il campo di =
applicazione della (ir)razionalit=E0 capitalistica e del potere =
economico, estendendo i diritti positivi economico-sociali, riducendo la =
sfera di vita sottoposta a mercificazione, e aumentando le opportunit=E0 =
di partecipazione, insomma, invertendo la tendenza attuale?=20
ciao
Luca

----------------------------------------------
Albert Interviews Grubacic Regarding the European Left

(1) The European Social Forum is coming up in early November. Broadly,
what is its relation to the WSF. And what positive promise does it hold
for a growing and unified European Left?

The European Social Forum is a chapter of the WSF and a part of what it
is now being called a " Porto Alegre process". It is a part of a
collective effort on the left--well, some parts of the left--to give a
sort of European articulation of the social movement. Yes, it is coming
in the first week of November and I hope that it is going to provide a
space for some interesting debate, and an autonomous space for the
grassroots radical movements coming from Europe.=20

Attending will be a wide range of groups and individuals ranging from
trade unions and catholic activist groups up to more radical minded
people. ATTAC is going to be there, of course, and Italian groups such
as ARCHE, which are going to lead the show. There is a lot of confusion
in the European activist scene right now. There is a posibillity that
this Forum will clarify things. There is an official presentation of the
Forum on www.fse-esf.org. On the other side of the activist spectrum you
have an European People's Global Action meeting going on in Leiden as we
speak, from 29. of August (www.agp.org). The "hosts" of the meeting are
the Euro Dusney collective from Holland and the left libertarian MRG
from Spain. So there are lots of conferences and important
conversations, mostly related to the structure of PGA. We have also had
an important No Border Camp in Strasbourg (www.noborder.org).=20
=20

(2) What is the European Consulta?

It is something I feel much more enthusiastic about then European Social
Forum, I have to admit. ESC has emerged from a social movement that is
challenging neoliberal globalization (it's origins are in Spain) and it
could be situated within three broad contexts:=20

1. The process of the convergence among the multitude of social
movements fighting against neoliberal globalization. These movements
include groups coming from Spain, Italy, Germany , England , the Balkans
and so on. Promoter groups are a very important part of this process.=20

2. The necessity of creating a common space for sustained coordination,
in the atmosphere of informed social debate, collective participation,
and mobilization.=20

3. The idea of questioning the established democracy through acts of
participatory democracy.

As the European Social Consulta has as its goal the transformation of
society, it stresses a few important objectives:=20

1. To deepen the analyses and critique of our current economic,
political and social system while building alternatives and proposals.
Alternatives which are anti capitalist, of course.

2. To reinforce the work of local groups and networks fighting against
the neoliberal globalization in Europe. You see, the process like ESC is
very much needed in Europe, because it offers a chance to crystalize
social movement in a network-based organizing system, shaped by
grassroots and operating in a participatory, horizontal, and
decentralized fashion.=20
=20

(3) What can you tell us broadly about the basic hallmarks of the
Consulta?

I can be precise. A few official hallmarks to guide this process:=20

- A clear rejection of capitalist-neoliberal- globalization.=20

- A rejection of all systems of domination and discrimination including,
but not limited to, patrirachy, racism, classism, and religious
fundamentalism of any creed.

- A call for critical debate, direct action, and development of the
alternatives to the current system as tools of social emancipation.

- An affirmation of direct and participatory democracy and the capacity
of all human beings to create the world in which they want to live and
actively participate in the decisions that most affect them.

- An organizing philosophy based on decentralization, horizontalism,
autonomy and a will to coordinate.

(4) Would the European Social Forum deny any of these points you raise?
How is the ESC different in these respects from the ESF?

I honestly do not know. We will have to wait and see how things are
going to unfold in Florence. European Social Consulta is much more
grassroots in it's way, yes, and it's essence, as I have told you
already, is anti-capitalist. European Social Forum includes many
different groups with many different agendas. Some of them are very
reformist. Some of them are more radical. Again, I hope that ESF is
going to help the social movement in Europe to resolve many of the
divisions now weakening it.

=20

(5) What is the essence of European Consulta process?

The best example we currently have at this moment is without doubt the
network of Argentine Popular Assemblies
(www.caceroleando.8m.com/asampopu.htm). These assemblies are the
equivalent of the local assemblies proposed in the European Social
Consulta. The way they are networking with a different and diverse
alternative projects that are already operating helps inspire what I
have mentioned above. For example, in Argentina the number of people
participating in the "Global Trueque Network" ( www.trueque.org.ar),
which promotes alternative, moneyless economy has grown in the past 6
months from 1 to 7 milion people. In Europe, of course, we are still
very far from the situation in Argentina where the more advanced level
of social precariousness has helped to radicalize the majority. However,
the idea of ESC is to make experiments and to embrace new political and
cultutal practices which point in the same direction.=20

So, this Internal Consultation process is already under way and the
first groups who begin working on it developed a tool for collective
discussion called the internal Consultation Guide . This document is a
questionnaire accompanied by a few basic proposals. You can find it,
translated to several lenguages, on www.consultaeuropea.org. Promoter
Groups, which are giving the direction to this consultation process are
open to openminded people from different political cultures and
backgrounds. In terms of the agenda, there will be a gathering of
European Promoter Groups this October in Barcelona. The idea is to
exchange experiences and proposals about how to move the International
Consultation forward and, concretelly, to decide how to prepare for the
first European Gathering , which is currently set for the end of
February 2003.=20

6) What can you tell us broadly about the state of the left in Europe --
are there generalizations that can be made? On the other hand, are there
sharp differences from region to region or country to country?

Yes, I think so. There were many attempts on conceptualization of the
alter-globalization movement in Europe. Cristophe Aguiton was arguing
about the distinction between "radicals, reformists, internationalists
and nationalists". Waterman is speaking about the "celebration,
rejection and criticism" which could be found among the participants.
Hardt recently sketched a division between radicals (grassroots
networks) and reformists (political parties). I am arguing for a
slightly different conceptualization, the one which would distinguish
"traditionalism", including many old style reformists, radicals, but
even traditionally minded libertarian marxists and anarchists, from what
I am calling "contemporary radicalism" which would embrace all the
individuals and groups who are trying to adapt their strategy of social
change to the new situation and who are influenced, in the first place,
by anarchism and "zapatista" ideas. PGA and European Social Consulta are
the perfect example of this merger of libertarian marxist and anarchist
ideas. I see these two as a way to resolve a dilema which is strangling
the left in Europe, and to stand, so to say, on the other side of
reformism (folks who find the word revolution itself, abhorrent) and
irresponsible radicalism (folks who decry fighting for anything but
revolution now).

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This message has been brought to you by ZNet (http://www.zmag.org). =
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<DIV>Ciao, non so chi di voi conosce =
Consulta Europea.=20
Mi piacerebbe avere opinioni informate in merito.</DIV>
<DIV>Di seguito vi mando un'intervista in =
proposito che=20
ho ricevuto giorni fa da <A=20
href=3D"mailto:znetupdates@zmag.org">znetupdates@???</A> </FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV>dove si contrappone consultaeuropea.org =
al FSE,=20
dove la prima viene dipinta come una rete di attivisti =
anticapitalisti=20
</DIV>
<DIV>("anarchici e zapatisti"), e il secondo =
infestato=20
da riformisti, ambigui sul tema =
"capitalismo=20
si / capitalismo no". </DIV>
<DIV>IMHO=20
approfondirei, perch=E8 il capitalismo dei Paesi =
scandinavi, del=20
Giappone o quello "fordista-keynesiano" sono alquanto diversi da quello=20
liberista imposto dal consenso di Washington ancora dominante. Vale a =
dire che=20
si pu=F2 essere antiliberisti e non necessariamente anticapitalisti. =
Soprattutto:=20
=E8 necessario o utile dividerci *ora* su questo? O forse =E8 meglio =
cercare=20
prima di sconfiggere il liberismo e ridimensionare il capitalismo =
reale,=20
cio=E8 limitare il campo di applicazione della (ir)razionalit=E0 =
capitalistica e del=20
potere economico, estendendo i diritti positivi economico-sociali, =
riducendo la=20
sfera di vita sottoposta a mercificazione, e aumentando le opportunit=E0 =
di=20
partecipazione, insomma, invertendo la tendenza=20
attuale? </DIV>
<DIV>ciao</DIV>
<DIV>Luca</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Albert Interviews Grubacic Regarding the European Left (1) =
The=20
European Social Forum is coming up in early November. Broadly, what =
is its=20
relation to the WSF. And what positive promise does it hold for a =
growing and=20
unified European Left? The European Social Forum is a chapter of =
the WSF=20
and a part of what it is now being called a " Porto Alegre process". =
It is a=20
part of a collective effort on the left--well, some parts of the =
left--to=20
give a sort of European articulation of the social movement. Yes, it =
is=20
coming in the first week of November and I hope that it is going to =
provide=20
a space for some interesting debate, and an autonomous space for=20
the grassroots radical movements coming from Europe. =
 Attending will=20
be a wide range of groups and individuals ranging from trade unions =
and=20
catholic activist groups up to more radical minded people. ATTAC is =
going to=20
be there, of course, and Italian groups such as ARCHE, which are =
going to=20
lead the show. There is a lot of confusion in the European activist =
scene=20
right now. There is a posibillity that this Forum will clarify =
things. There=20
is an official presentation of the Forum on <A=20
href=3D"http://www.fse-esf.org">www.fse-esf.org</A>. On the other side =
of the=20
activist spectrum you have an European People's Global Action meeting =
going=20
on in Leiden as we speak, from 29. of August (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.agp.org">www.agp.org</A>). The "hosts" of the meeting =

are the Euro Dusney collective from Holland and the left libertarian=20
MRG from Spain. So there are lots of conferences and=20
important conversations, mostly related to the structure of PGA. We =
have also=20
had an important No Border Camp in Strasbourg (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.noborder.org">www.noborder.org</A>). =
   (2) What=20
is the European Consulta? It is something I feel much more =
enthusiastic=20
about then European Social Forum, I have to admit. ESC has emerged =
from a=20
social movement that is challenging neoliberal globalization (it's =
origins=20
are in Spain) and it could be situated within three broad contexts:=20
 1. The process of the convergence among the multitude of=20
social movements fighting against neoliberal globalization. These=20
movements include groups coming from Spain, Italy, Germany , England =
, the=20
Balkans and so on. Promoter groups are a very important part of this =
process.=20
 2. The necessity of creating a common space for sustained=20
coordination, in the atmosphere of informed social debate, collective =

participation, and mobilization. 3. The idea of questioning =
the=20
established democracy through acts of participatory =
democracy. As the=20
European Social Consulta has as its goal the transformation =
of society, it=20
stresses a few important objectives: 1. To deepen the analyses =
and=20
critique of our current economic, political and social system while =
building=20
alternatives and proposals. Alternatives which are anti capitalist, =
of=20
course. 2. To reinforce the work of local groups and networks =
fighting=20
against the neoliberal globalization in Europe. You see, the process =
like ESC=20
is very much needed in Europe, because it offers a chance to=20
crystalize social movement in a network-based organizing system, =
shaped=20
by grassroots and operating in a participatory, horizontal,=20
and decentralized fashion.   (3) What can you tell us =
broadly=20
about the basic hallmarks of the Consulta? I can be precise. A =
few=20
official hallmarks to guide this process: - A clear rejection of =

capitalist-neoliberal- globalization. - A rejection of all =
systems of=20
domination and discrimination including, but not limited to, =
patrirachy,=20
racism, classism, and religious fundamentalism of any creed. - =
A call=20
for critical debate, direct action, and development of =
the alternatives to=20
the current system as tools of social emancipation. - An =
affirmation of=20
direct and participatory democracy and the capacity of all human =
beings to=20
create the world in which they want to live and actively participate =
in the=20
decisions that most affect them. - An organizing philosophy based =
on=20
decentralization, horizontalism, autonomy and a will to=20
coordinate. (4) Would the European Social Forum deny any =
of these=20
points you raise? How is the ESC different in these respects from the =

ESF? I honestly do not know. We will have to wait and see how =
things=20
are going to unfold in Florence. European Social Consulta is much=20
more grassroots in it's way, yes, and it's essence, as I have told=20
you already, is anti-capitalist. European Social Forum includes=20
many different groups with many different agendas. Some of them are=20
very reformist. Some of them are more radical. Again, I hope that ESF =

is going to help the social movement in Europe to resolve many of=20
the divisions now weakening it.   (5) What is the =
essence=20
of European Consulta process? The best example we currently have =
at this=20
moment is without doubt the network of Argentine Popular =
Assemblies (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.caceroleando.8m.com/asampopu.htm">www.caceroleando.8m.=
com/asampopu.htm</A>).=20
These assemblies are the equivalent of the local assemblies proposed =
in the=20
European Social Consulta. The way they are networking with a =
different and=20
diverse alternative projects that are already operating helps inspire =
what=20
I have mentioned above. For example, in Argentina the number of=20
people participating in the "Global Trueque Network" ( <A=20
href=3D"http://www.trueque.org.ar">www.trueque.org.ar</A>), which =
promotes=20
alternative, moneyless economy has grown in the past 6 months from 1 =
to 7=20
milion people. In Europe, of course, we are still very far from the =
situation=20
in Argentina where the more advanced level of social precariousness =
has=20
helped to radicalize the majority. However, the idea of ESC is to =
make=20
experiments and to embrace new political and cultutal practices which =
point=20
in the same direction. So, this Internal Consultation process is =
already=20
under way and the first groups who begin working on it developed a =
tool for=20
collective discussion called the internal Consultation Guide . This =
document=20
is a questionnaire accompanied by a few basic proposals. You can find =

it, translated to several lenguages, on <A=20
href=3D"http://www.consultaeuropea.org">www.consultaeuropea.org</A>.=20
Promoter Groups, which are giving the direction to this consultation =
process=20
are open to openminded people from different political cultures=20
and backgrounds. In terms of the agenda, there will be a gathering=20
of European Promoter Groups this October in Barcelona. The idea is=20
to exchange experiences and proposals about how to move the=20
International Consultation forward and, concretelly, to decide how to =
prepare=20
for the first European Gathering , which is currently set for the end =

of February 2003. 6) What can you tell us broadly =
about the=20
state of the left in Europe -- are there generalizations that can be =
made? On=20
the other hand, are there sharp differences from region to region or =
country=20
to country? Yes, I think so. There were many attempts on=20
conceptualization of the alter-globalization movement in Europe. =
Cristophe=20
Aguiton was arguing about the distinction between "radicals, =
reformists,=20
internationalists and nationalists". Waterman is speaking about the=20
"celebration, rejection and criticism" which could be found among the =

participants. Hardt recently sketched a division between radicals=20
(grassroots networks) and reformists (political parties). I am =
arguing for=20
a slightly different conceptualization, the one which would=20
distinguish "traditionalism", including many old style reformists, =
radicals,=20
but even traditionally minded libertarian marxists and anarchists, =
from=20
what I am calling "contemporary radicalism" which would embrace all=20
the individuals and groups who are trying to adapt their strategy of=20
social change to the new situation and who are influenced, in the =
first=20
place, by anarchism and "zapatista" ideas. PGA and European Social =
Consulta=20
are the perfect example of this merger of libertarian marxist and=20
anarchist ideas. I see these two as a way to resolve a dilema which =
is=20
strangling the left in Europe, and to stand, so to say, on the other =
side=20
of reformism (folks who find the word revolution itself, abhorrent)=20
and irresponsible radicalism (folks who decry fighting for anything=20
but revolution=20
now). =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This message =
has=20
been brought to you by ZNet (<A=20
href=3D"http://www.zmag.org">http://www.zmag.org</A>). Visit our site =
for=20
subscription options.</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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